Curse

Scary · Nov 20, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

To mine opinion there are almost no ranger spirits used in PvE, accept for
EoE (Edge of Exstinction) and Frozen Soil.
This is rather pitty, couse they are nice.
But the problem for PvE is, that they are "as the topic title says."

for Non-Spirit creatures within range, wouldnt it be nice that those spirits
where just counting for the creatures that are placing them.
So spirits placed by Foe's give the advantage to the foe's and spirits placed
by alies... wel you get the idea...

its just a thought....but its just a shame of not using those spirits in PvE.

the Puppeteer · Nov 20, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

sooo - you want to make ranger spirits act like ritualist spirits?

Scary · Nov 20, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

thats the idea yes, there are so many spirits not ever used.
And yes that would give a opportunity for lots of new builds.

Rothan Celt · Nov 20, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

I like them how they are. Ranger spirits are supposed to change the environment entirely names like 'frozen soil' explain this. What i mean by this is that the entire area with in the spirits range has Frozen Soil and the effect of 'Frozen soil' is the inability to rez. Its a confusing prospect but its what I believe Anet always wanted for ranger spirits.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 20, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Ranger spirits are not real spirits, so to speak, they are more like essences of nature. Hence the name "Nature Spirits." While Ritualists are Bouned Spirits. Ritualist summoned spirits are real spirits summoned from the Rift and are bound into our plain for a time.

Because of which, Nature Spirits, which are pure parts of nature, cannot attack, but simply give AoE affects, like some of the Bound Spirits such as Shelter.

And due to this, Nature Spirits cannot attack while making sense with lore.

Stupid Shizno · Nov 20, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

so.....you want to turn spirits (nature) into ally only.

then no spirits would be used at all, the point of them is to change the effect of the area. to benifit you. there isnt a single spirit that helps you really, they all just hurt the other team.

caballo_oscuro · Nov 20, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothan Celt

I like them how they are. Ranger spirits are supposed to change the environment entirely names like 'frozen soil' explain this. What i mean by this is that the entire area with in the spirits range has Frozen Soil and the effect of 'Frozen soil' is the inability to rez. Its a confusing prospect but its what I believe Anet always wanted for ranger spirits.

Bang on the money Rothmeister.

Scary, the ranger spirits are not meant to act in the same manner as the rit spirits. They serve a different purpose as already outlined. To change a game mechanic to make one class function just like another would undermine the purpose of having the class, and I don't think alot of hardcore rangers or rits would be happy about such a sweeping change.

Scary · Nov 20, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I know these are spirits to change the environment.

but I have a ranger that is over 3 years old now, and Im always wandering
if I can make a build that can use those spirits that are almost never being
used in PvE becouse the advantage to the foe's or disadvantage is just as
big to the players who are using it. And to use them on surten groups of foe's
isnt almost usefull to, couse in the rest of the area you wold have a crap
build for the rest of the team.

And that would change if you give the benefits, as
favorable winds, Fertile Season etc. to the groups using that spirit.
It would make some area's even more easy Ill know... but on the other hand,
it would make other area's with foe's using spirits more harder.

Its just that we have 22...Yes 22 enviroment spirits as ranger skills.
And just 3 or 4 of those are often used in PvE, the others are not, couse the
benefits to both sides makes them rather useless... And that is just a shame

Beta Sprite · Nov 20, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno

so.....you want to turn spirits (nature) into ally only.

then no spirits would be used at all, the point of them is to change the effect of the area. to benifit you. there isnt a single spirit that helps you really, they all just hurt the other team.

Yeah... except for:
Favorable Winds
Fertile Season
Symbiosis
Energizing Wind/Quickening Zephyr (Arguably)
Tranquility

Those could be considered ally-benefiting more than enemy-...detrimenting.

But yeah... most of them are best when affecting the enemy more than your allies.

MagmaRed · Nov 20, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

To mine opinion there are almost no ranger spirits used in PvE, accept for
EoE (Edge of Exstinction) and Frozen Soil.

Wow.... what PvE are you playing? I often see more spirits from Rangers that I think are needed, but rarely ones I think are a waste. Perhaps you have seen some Rangers using:

[favorable winds][winnowing][conflagration][winter][quickening zephyr]

And then there are ones used only occassionally, but they are used. Like:

[nature's renewal][energizing wind][muddy terrain][symbiosis][fertile season]

I don't really see anything wrong with any of the Nature Rituals, nor do I see anything that should be changed about them.

/unsigned

wind fire and ice · Nov 20, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

no,changing them in that way would destroy them..half or more of ranger spirits are meant to hurt the other team.

zelgadissan · Nov 20, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I take [Winter] with me every time I enter Rilohn Refuge. Sometimes for lulz I bring [Greater Conflagration] + [Winter] and then slap [Mantra of Frost] on my entire team.

I'll be honest, I understand what you're saying about Nature Rituals in that they are rare to be seen. But at the same time I don't think there's anything wrong with them, and in fact they might be the most balanced thing in GW.

/notsigned

V Those were the good ol' days, weren't they?

Tyla · Nov 20, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

I take [Winter] with me every time I enter Rilohn Refuge. Sometimes for lulz I bring [Greater Conflagration] + [Winter] and then slap [Mantra of Frost] on my entire team.

Ah, reminds me of pre Tank 'N' Spank DoA!

Scary · Nov 21, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Wow.... what PvE are you playing? I often see more spirits from Rangers that I think are needed, but rarely ones I think are a waste. Perhaps you have seen some Rangers using:

[favorable winds][winnowing][conflagration][winter][quickening zephyr]

And then there are ones used only occassionally, but they are used. Like:

[nature's renewal][energizing wind][muddy terrain][symbiosis][fertile season]

I don't really see anything wrong with any of the Nature Rituals, nor do I see anything that should be changed about them.

/unsigned

Lol, an other person who thinks that somebody cant play just becouse he
places a topic asking people for there opnion about something.

Yes the first 5 you wrote are often used, indeed the other 5 are used NOT
that much and like the reply just above me...Yes for farming DoA.. Aloha
so farming is the ultimated PvE ??? still leaves you with 12 unused spirits.
But hey .. you must be king or queen of PvE... so Ill let you dream on.

Some reason given for the /notsigens are ok to me .. others wel..

MagmaRed · Nov 21, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

Lol, an other person who thinks that somebody cant play just becouse he
places a topic asking people for there opnion about something.

Yes the first 5 you wrote are often used, indeed the other 5 are used NOT
that much and like the reply just above me...Yes for farming DoA.. Aloha
so farming is the ultimated PvE ??? still leaves you with 12 unused spirits.
But hey .. you must be king or queen of PvE... so Ill let you dream on.

Some reason given for the /notsigens are ok to me .. others wel..

Where did I say someone can't play? All I did is list spirits that I see used in PvE. I listed 5, and did not include EoE, which the OP stated, as I rarely see it used. I did not even consider farming situations when I thought of the spirits I have seen used.

Just because a spirit is used more in PvP than PvE doesn't mean it needs to see changes made. There are a LOT of skills that function the same in both PvE and PvP, and yet rarely see use in one of those 2. Famine is used in Farming builds, but what about Equinox? I have actually run a GvG build using 2 Rangers with Equinox and 2 Mesmers with Arcane Languor. Didn't do well, but it was a lot of fun, and the opposing Monks were pissed

I see nothing wrong with the way Nature Rituals function. Some could maybe use some changes for balance, but not all spirits as a whole, and even the ones I may think need changed are not ones all would agree with.

Faer · Nov 21, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

The real problem with Nature Rituals in PvE is that they take so long to set up, not that they effect both allies and foes regardless of what they do. By the time a Ranger can get a spirit down, the rest of the team should have already killed or should be nearly done killing whatever it was the Ranger wanted the spirit for in the first place (if you aren't killing things that fast, you are doing it wrong; the vast majority of foe groups in NM can be defeated in 3-8 seconds thanks to over-the-top AoE damage available to players and ridiculous PvE skills, and HM groups should only take about twice that to blow away). Then everybody moves on, and the spirit sits there until it wastes away, leaving the Ranger with a useless skill slot for the next half minute or longer.

Who cares what the spirit does or who it effects when it's generally a waste of a slot regardless?

DarkNecrid · Nov 21, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Lower the activation time of Ranger spirits to 1-2 seconds and you'll see them get more play.

People will also take [Summon Spirits] to help out on the movement part.

You also forgot to mention [Infuriating Heat] is used.

Numa Pompilius · Nov 21, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Because of which, Nature Spirits, which are pure parts of nature, cannot attack, but simply give AoE affects, like some of the Bound Spirits such as Shelter.
And due to this, Nature Spirits cannot attack while making sense with lore.

Yeah, although that would make more sense if there weren't ritualist spirits with environmental-like effects (like Shelter, Displacement or Earthbind).

Like others have said, the problem with ranger spirits in PvE isn't their effects, but that they take so long to set up and have so long recharges. By the time the spirit is up the fight is halfway over, and by the time it's recharged you've already fought several more fights.

Owik Gall · Nov 21, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

The problem isn't the ranger spirit skills, it's how the people use them. Heck, it's PvE for crying out loud. What CAN'T you use there? For all I care, you can be creative with your skills and go at it. I don't see any problems with any of the ranger skills. They are what they are so they fit the class.

dawnmist · Nov 25, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Often when these spirits are used, it's because you WANT them to affect the other side.

Winter - don't let them use earth/fire damage reductions (Destroyers, Fire Island Titans, earth eles, etc).
Frozen Soil - don't let them use resurrect skills
Conflagration/Greater Conflagration - change their damage into something you can resist better, boost your damage to something they can't resist
Winnowing - you don't want to drop a spirit that increases damage done to you but not to enemies, do you?

Other times, if the other side are using it you WANT to get the benefit as well.

Infuriating Heat
Symbiosis
Fertile Season

These skills are based on the spirit affecting everybody - it destroys the utility of these skills if they were limited to only the group that cast it. It would mean that there is no longer any purpose for many of the spirits at all.

As for EoE and Frozen Soil - my main is a ranger (2.5 years old), and I've never used either of these...but then, I've also never done Urgoz/Deep/DOA. Where do you see them, that these are the only spirits you see used? It used to be mandatory for a Winter spirit in the last Prophesies mission...and it's plain good sense for Winter in the Waterworks...

What you've proposed would ruin the purpose for using many of the ranger spirits.

/notsigned